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Post by sydauscaskettfan2412 on Sept 29, 2017 1:58:04 GMT
Here is link for tvline Absentia article tvline.com/2017/90/25/stana-katic-absentia-premiere-dates/ Headline says 'Stana Katic's Absentia Gets Global Premiere Dates as U.s. News Looms ive also read that Stana prepared for the role also via meeting with WW2 survivors. If that also means meeting with Holocaust survivors, I dont know.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 2:31:29 GMT
According to Sandraxf, these are the titles of the last four:
1x07 A & B 1x08 Brave Boy 1x09 Child's Play 1x10 Original Sin
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Post by sydauscaskettfan2412 on Sept 29, 2017 3:47:00 GMT
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Post by latte on Sept 29, 2017 10:58:02 GMT
REVIEW of sorts by ALWAYSWRITEWITHCOFFEE
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Post by temple01uk on Sept 29, 2017 11:23:01 GMT
....of sorts is right!
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Post by latte on Sept 29, 2017 12:20:47 GMT
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 29, 2017 12:28:19 GMT
I thought the review above was almost completely off base. The taste of the reviewer shows though. Clearly he or she is not a fan of European style thrill/cop/mystery dramas - The Bridge, The Tunnel, Lava Field, Loch Ness, Prime Suspect 1973, White Chapel, etc. These shows generally drop you into the middle of a crime/situation/incident and then work their way out and around the story elements over the course of 8 or 10 episodes. The reviewer was looking for a US style product and maybe something along the lines of Castle. Absentia is dark and very European in style.
German and Spanish reviews of e1 have been positive. Stana has gotten very strong reviews. They acknoledge that it is too early in the story to tell much about the rest of the show. The reviewers want to see more. That's the best sign.
An interesting point is that different people have commented on either side of the amount of family involvement. Some said that there was too much family involvement which made Absentia come off as soapy. Another reviewer said that there wasn't enough character background in the 1st episode. Couple of other people mentioned Emily's family background, but said though the first 2 episodes that the involvement and tone of her family was just right. Eye of the beholder. Expectations.
That reviewer and I must have watched different programs.
Somewhat unrelated point, but maybe significant - The Absentia episodes being shown in Europe have been cut down from 55+ minutes to 47. A good deal of that seems to have been in "transition" segments at the beginning and end of scenes. Transition from one scene to another can be sort of a hard slam. Suddenly you're into dialogue between characters that were not in the previous scene. It takes a moment to sort out who is in this scene and you miss some of the dialogue.
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Post by latte on Sept 29, 2017 12:31:59 GMT
Agree! Just thought I'd post something that pushes our opinions a little. Think AWWC is harsh in some of her thoughts but in other aspects there was some merit. For example the point made about the pace and feeling as though the viewer had been dropped into the story with little supporting background was interesting. The comment that five episodes in and there is still not much really known about the characters, aside from her disappearance. One thing I questioned was that there were no reference points to give a true sense of time lapsed. How much time before Emily took Flynn to goKarting. It becomes relevant as Alice is constantly being told by Nick that he needs 'time' to sort things out with Emily returning. Just how much time has passed before the pregnancy test? Wondering too the impact of cutting so many minutes from each episode and how that may or may not have changed the storytelling?
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 29, 2017 12:41:30 GMT
Good points, but you're complaining about things that are done constantly in European productions. All the big cop shows drop you into the middle of the action without any background. As the story progresses you have to pick up character background, timing, etc. from the context of the action as it plays out. You are an observer in the action. You seldom know any more than the protagonist. Sort of like reading a good mystery. Nobody is going to tell you anything straight out. You have to use your head to figure it out for yourself. It's part of the game. Part of the enjoyment you get from the show. If you don't like that, well that's you taste, not the show or the book.
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Post by temple01uk on Sept 29, 2017 13:19:32 GMT
Good points, but you're complaining about things that are done constantly in European productions. All the big cop shows drop you into the middle of the action without any background. As the story progresses you have to pick up character background, timing, etc. from the context of the action as it plays out. You are an observer in the action. You seldom know any more than the protagonist. Sort of like reading a good mystery. Nobody is going to tell you anything straight out. You have to use your head to figure it out for yourself. It's part of the game. Part of the enjoyment you get from the show. If you don't like that, well that's you taste, not the show or the book. Thanks for that, and your right most of the European cop drama's don't do the slow build up, just trickle in the details as you go along while getting on with the action....but like many of these series I think we will need to deal with some of the time line blocks but it will leave some unanswered questions I'm afraid....one of the issues I have a little niggle about is that Emily is Flynns mother so why exactly is she answering to Alice, as she did after the karting accident, she may be a little unsure of her self with him but in the end she is his mother even if they are still in the process of reconnecting after her release.
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 29, 2017 14:53:42 GMT
One other thing on the re-edited episodes of Absentia. They have it down to 47 minutes fairly consistently. The editing is tight, but I think they have left all the scenes in place. Castle was somewhere between 45 and 42 minutes. Absentia is not going to get down 5 minutes per episode without some injury to the storytelling. Maybe they can squeeze it down to 45, but even that will be difficult while they still try to maintain reasonable storytelling.
Storytelling vs. advertising revenue. It's an issue for every broadcast network.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 17:08:02 GMT
Interesting answer from Patrick Heusinger in a Russian interview that may explain why he and his character are perceived as being wooden. How would you describe Nick's character? Nick is an FBI agent, and he is a deeply traumatized person. Six years ago, he lost his wife, and over the years he had to learn how to deal with it somehow, had to put himself together in pieces. But only the shell remained of it. He is an introvert and expresses his feelings a little differently than many other characters that we see on the screen. For example, he is rather reserved. He does not know how to express passion, like most people. He hides the pain deep inside. Hollywood Reporter (Russian version)
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 17:23:28 GMT
I thought the review above was almost completely off base. The taste of the reviewer shows though. Clearly he or she is not a fan of European style thrill/cop/mystery dramas - The Bridge, The Tunnel, Lava Field, Loch Ness, Prime Suspect 1973, White Chapel, etc. These shows generally drop you into the middle of a crime/situation/incident and then work their way out and around the story elements over the course of 8 or 10 episodes. The reviewer was looking for a US style product and maybe something along the lines of Castle. Absentia is dark and very European in style. .... latteAgree! Just thought I'd post something that pushes our opinions a little. Think AWWC is harsh in some of her thoughts but in other aspects there was some merit. For example the point made about the pace and feeling as though the viewer had been dropped into the story with little supporting background was interesting. The comment that five episodes in and there is still not much really known about the characters, aside from her disappearance. One thing I questioned was that there were no reference points to give a true sense of time lapsed. How much time before Emily took Flynn to goKarting. It becomes relevant as Alice is constantly being told by Nick that he needs 'time' to sort things out with Emily returning. Just how much time has passed before the pregnancy test? Again, I haven't seen any episodes, but in general I agree that these issues are common in European shows. American shows tend to walk you through things by the hand, whereas European ones can dump you out in the wilderness all by your lonesome. A prime example for me was the recent Prime Suspect prequel. I was totally lost in the first ep until after I watched the second and then re-watched both before the third. Same thing with Vera, which I've just recently started to watch from the beginning. It takes more time to get into the story and sort out characters than many of us are used to.
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Post by NYerBornnbred on Sept 29, 2017 18:10:41 GMT
I find more than a little puzzling the notion that the fact that European shows are made in a certain way somehow means that a critic is off-base for saying that they think the show being that way is a weakness. Critics and fans alike certainly have no trouble excoriating American producers, directors, and showrunners for using tropes and approaches that are "the way things are done" here; blind adherence to the "will they won't they" trope years beyond its expiration date is a prime example of that of which we are all familiar. A show dropping viewers off in the wilderness and letting them figure everything out for themselves is a choice, and can certainly be viewed objectively as a poor one, whether or not other people are doing it as well. I certainly don't view as a positive in any way a show that would require me to watch episodes multiple times to understand what is going on; I don't view that as being intriguing, I view it as being deliberately obtuse. (I'm not saying that is the case here, just talking about the general principle.)
All criticisms are a matter of taste, but that doesn't mean that they have no external validity. AWWC stated things accurately and objectively, and said that she thought these things affected the viewing experience in a negative way. The fact that other shows might do the same thing doesn't in any way weaken her argument, any more than someone noting in the 1960s that a particular children's show was garbage when children's programming at the time was a vast wasteland of commercialistic dreck would have in any way invalidated the criticism.
As to Absentia itself, I just watched the third episode, and I thought it was much better than the first two, precisely because it wasn't unrelentingly one note of menace and paranoia. There was actual joy for Emily for a few minutes on the track, there were glimmerings of a connection between Nick and Emily, there was actually an attempt to provide a little more nuance to the points of view of Alice and Jack. All of that was completely missing in the first two episodes, and that made the first two episodes objectively weak in my view. I don't watch European noir, but if all of those shows also do no character development and are just hour after hour of intense misery, then I say that they aren't very (or maybe any) good, and I really don't care if that's what they're going for.
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 29, 2017 18:29:09 GMT
If you are going to be critical of some art form, you have to be self-aware enough to recognize when your taste or some other bias is coloring your comments and admit it. For example the NYT is bias against shows which claim to be centered in New York, but are shot elsewhere. They don't admit it, but they do support shows that employ local production companies over others.
So, if you don't like The Tunnel or River or Vera just say so. In that way we know your taste. I can't stand Father Brown or Murder She Wrote and the entire cozy mystery genre for a variety of reasons, but lots of people love them. I'll never give any cozy a positive review. Just me.
Another thing of interest which is a matter of taste is that one European reviewer said there was too much family information in episode 1 of Absentia which made it soapy. A Spanish reviewer said there wasn't enough. A German reviewer felt Emily's family relationship were handled very well. You can't please everyone. Taste
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 18:52:09 GMT
I'm really confused about the whole "European" shows are this and that and don't do this and that thing. Europe is a continent. British shows are different from Spanish shows, which are different from German shows, which are different from Swedish shows etc. Not all European shows are the same. Not all American shows are the same. Not all people like the same shows. That's just the way it is.
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 29, 2017 19:08:37 GMT
I'm really confused about the whole "European" shows are this and that and don't do this and that thing. Europe is a continent. British shows are different from Spanish shows, which are different from German shows, which are different from Swedish shows etc. Not all European shows are the same. Not all American shows are the same. Not all people like the same shows. That's just the way it is. Point taken By European cop/thriller/mystery I mean current things like Lava Flow (Iceland), Maracell (France), Witness (France), River (British/Netflix), The Bridge (Danish?), Shetland (British), Loch Ness (British), Wallander (Sweedish) those sorts of things. These are the type of shows that drop you in the middle and make you thrash it out with the cops. One US series that follows that approach is the Bosch series from Netflix, but Connelly, the books author, approaches his books in the same way. You only know what Harry Bosch knows when he knows it, but from that you can figure out the mystery before Connelly tells you. Personally I prefer that approach. To me it's much more fun.
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Post by eeyore on Sept 29, 2017 19:11:39 GMT
I've now managed to watch the first six episodes and although the first three were OK I would compare the last three with the first season of Fortitude which I had to binge watch over one weekend because it was so compelling, and I'm really looking forward to the last four. One of the things I'm liking is that there have even been a few moments where the story has had me doubting Emily's innocence, but that can't be right,can it. LOL (I'm a big fan of Nordic Noir)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2017 19:41:41 GMT
I'm really confused about the whole "European" shows are this and that and don't do this and that thing. Europe is a continent. British shows are different from Spanish shows, which are different from German shows, which are different from Swedish shows etc. Not all European shows are the same. Not all American shows are the same. Not all people like the same shows. That's just the way it is. Point taken By European cop/thriller/mystery I mean current things like Lava Flow (Iceland), Maracell (France), Witness (France), River (British/Netflix), The Bridge (Danish?), Shetland (British), Loch Ness (British), Wallander (Sweedish) those sorts of things. These are the type of shows that drop you in the middle and make you thrash it out with the cops. One US series that follows that approach is the Bosch series from Netflix, but Connelly, the books author, approaches his books in the same way. You only know what Harry Bosch knows when he knows it, but from that you can figure out the mystery before Connelly tells you. Personally I prefer that approach. To me it's much more fun. Thank you for your explanation! Unfortunately I haven't seen any of these shows. I'm probably not watching enough shows to understand the problem with the European style some people see. Personally I like Absentia so far.
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Post by temple01uk on Sept 29, 2017 20:09:12 GMT
I thought the review above was almost completely off base. The taste of the reviewer shows though. Clearly he or she is not a fan of European style thrill/cop/mystery dramas - The Bridge, The Tunnel, Lava Field, Loch Ness, Prime Suspect 1973, White Chapel, etc. These shows generally drop you into the middle of a crime/situation/incident and then work their way out and around the story elements over the course of 8 or 10 episodes. The reviewer was looking for a US style product and maybe something along the lines of Castle. Absentia is dark and very European in style. .... latteAgree! Just thought I'd post something that pushes our opinions a little. Think AWWC is harsh in some of her thoughts but in other aspects there was some merit. For example the point made about the pace and feeling as though the viewer had been dropped into the story with little supporting background was interesting. The comment that five episodes in and there is still not much really known about the characters, aside from her disappearance. One thing I questioned was that there were no reference points to give a true sense of time lapsed. How much time before Emily took Flynn to goKarting. It becomes relevant as Alice is constantly being told by Nick that he needs 'time' to sort things out with Emily returning. Just how much time has passed before the pregnancy test? Again, I haven't seen any episodes, but in general I agree that these issues are common in European shows. American shows tend to walk you through things by the hand, whereas European ones can dump you out in the wilderness all by your lonesome. A prime example for me was the recent Prime Suspect prequel. I was totally lost in the first ep until after I watched the second and then re-watched both before the third. Same thing with Vera, which I've just recently started to watch from the beginning. It takes more time to get into the story and sort out characters than many of us are used to. Vera is a brilliant show, love the characters and cases.....another you might want to try if it comes around is a show called Shetland, a cop show set in some of the Scottish Islands but very much in the same vein as Vera and Prime Suspect.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 20:28:54 GMT
I find more than a little puzzling the notion that the fact that European shows are made in a certain way somehow means that a critic is off-base for saying that they think the show being that way is a weakness. Critics and fans alike certainly have no trouble excoriating American producers, directors, and showrunners for using tropes and approaches that are "the way things are done" here; blind adherence to the "will they won't they" trope years beyond its expiration date is a prime example of that of which we are all familiar. A show dropping viewers off in the wilderness and letting them figure everything out for themselves is a choice, and can certainly be viewed objectively as a poor one, whether or not other people are doing it as well. I certainly don't view as a positive in any way a show that would require me to watch episodes multiple times to understand what is going on; I don't view that as being intriguing, I view it as being deliberately obtuse. (I'm not saying that is the case here, just talking about the general principle.) All criticisms are a matter of taste, but that doesn't mean that they have no external validity. AWWC stated things accurately and objectively, and said that she thought these things affected the viewing experience in a negative way. The fact that other shows might do the same thing doesn't in any way weaken her argument, any more than someone noting in the 1960s that a particular children's show was garbage when children's programming at the time was a vast wasteland of commercialistic dreck would have in any way invalidated the criticism. As to Absentia itself, I just watched the third episode, and I thought it was much better than the first two, precisely because it wasn't unrelentingly one note of menace and paranoia. There was actual joy for Emily for a few minutes on the track, there were glimmerings of a connection between Nick and Emily, there was actually an attempt to provide a little more nuance to the points of view of Alice and Jack. All of that was completely missing in the first two episodes, and that made the first two episodes objectively weak in my view. I don't watch European noir, but if all of those shows also do no character development and are just hour after hour of intense misery, then I say that they aren't very (or maybe any) good, and I really don't care if that's what they're going for. Sorry. I wasn't trying to say or agree with someone else that the method or style of filmmaking can't be critiqued or criticized. I was just saying that those of us who grew up watching more American-styled fare might have trouble accepting the pace and rhythm of European crime shows. Character development is there, plots make sense, but it's not handed to you on a silver platter with neon signs straight from the beginning. I'm exaggerating, of course, as I did with the wilderness comment, but it's just to make a point that appreciating different types of styles is on the viewer. To me, national and regional styles are a little like different directors' styles. One may suit you more than another.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 20:38:31 GMT
If you are going to be critical of some art form, you have to be self-aware enough to recognize when your taste or some other bias is coloring your comments and admit it. For example the NYT is bias against shows which claim to be centered in New York, but are shot elsewhere. They don't admit it, but they do support shows that employ local production companies over others. So, if you don't like The Tunnel or River or Vera just say so. In that way we know your taste. I can't stand Father Brown or Murder She Wrote and the entire cozy mystery genre for a variety of reasons, but lots of people love them. I'll never give any cozy a positive review. Just me. Another thing of interest which is a matter of taste is that one European reviewer said there was too much family information in episode 1 of Absentia which made it soapy. A Spanish reviewer said there wasn't enough. A German reviewer felt Emily's family relationship were handled very well. You can't please everyone. Taste Agree about reviewers. One thing I would add is that there are individual's tastes overlapping with national or regional (i.e., cultural) tastes and preferences in anyone's review of any show. There's also how varied a person's experience is in watching shows and movies from elsewhere. In the US, we get British and some Canadian shows, mostly on Public Broadcasting channels, some Mexican shows on Spanish cable, but rarely anything from elsewhere. Just like in our movie theaters.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 20:43:25 GMT
I've now managed to watch the first six episodes and although the first three were OK I would compare the last three with the first season of Fortitude which I had to binge watch over one weekend because it was so compelling, and I'm really looking forward to the last four. One of the things I'm liking is that there have even been a few moments where the story has had me doubting Emily's innocence, but that can't be right,can it. LOL (I'm a big fan of Nordic Noir) Well, Stana said in MC that viewers at different times will love Emily, hate her, root for her, and be afraid of her. Sounds like she was right on target with you. :)
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 29, 2017 20:46:13 GMT
Again, .... Same thing with Vera, which I've just recently started to watch from the beginning. It takes more time to get into the story and sort out characters than many of us are used to. Vera is a brilliant show, love the characters and cases.....another you might want to try if it comes around is a show called Shetland, a cop show set in some of the Scottish Islands but very much in the same vein as Vera and Prime Suspect. Thanks for the suggestion. Will tackle that after Vera.
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Post by victor on Sept 29, 2017 21:36:29 GMT
Vera is a brilliant show, love the characters and cases.....another you might want to try if it comes around is a show called Shetland, a cop show set in some of the Scottish Islands but very much in the same vein as Vera and Prime Suspect. Thanks for the suggestion. Will tackle that after Vera. quasar, If possible, you should also give the following a chance; Morse, Inspector Lewis, Endeavour, Grantchester, Scott & Bailey (all British); as well as a couple of Australian shows, 800 Words and A Place to Call Home. Cheers
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Post by latte on Sept 29, 2017 22:18:58 GMT
One other thing on the re-edited episodes of Absentia. They have it down to 47 minutes fairly consistently. The editing is tight, but I think they have left all the scenes in place. Castle was somewhere between 45 and 42 minutes. Absentia is not going to get down 5 minutes per episode without some injury to the storytelling. Maybe they can squeeze it down to 45, but even that will be difficult while they still try to maintain reasonable storytelling. Storytelling vs. advertising revenue. It's an issue for every broadcast network. Hmmm. Maybe. But the thing is we KNOW they filmed 60 minutes per episode. That doesn't mean they filmed it and then cut it back. As I understand it, and maybe I'm wrong, but they edited each episode until they were left with the 60 minutes? Then to appease the platforms releasing it they stripped a further 15/18 minutes from each episode? That's a lot of scenes and potential storytelling/character development IMO. If we think of the Caskett deleted scene in Veritas where Beckett places her mothers ring back into the jewellery box and how significant that was to 'closing' the Joanna Beckett arc, then who knows what's on the cutting room floor for Absentia.
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Post by latte on Sept 29, 2017 22:23:59 GMT
Good points, but you're complaining about things that are done constantly in European productions. All the big cop shows drop you into the middle of the action without any background. As the story progresses you have to pick up character background, timing, etc. from the context of the action as it plays out. You are an observer in the action. You seldom know any more than the protagonist. Sort of like reading a good mystery. Nobody is going to tell you anything straight out. You have to use your head to figure it out for yourself. It's part of the game. Part of the enjoyment you get from the show. If you don't like that, well that's you taste, not the show or the book. Thanks for that, and your right most of the European cop drama's don't do the slow build up, just trickle in the details as you go along while getting on with the action....but like many of these series I think we will need to deal with some of the time line blocks but it will leave some unanswered questions I'm afraid....one of the issues I have a little niggle about is that Emily is Flynns mother so why exactly is she answering to Alice, as she did after the karting accident, she may be a little unsure of her self with him but in the end she is his mother even if they are still in the process of reconnecting after her release. Really great point! Yes, she acts almost submissive towards Alice, yet she acts independent and strong willed towards everyone else. Could it be that Emily sees that Flynn sees Alice as his mother and she is worried that if she pushes against Alice too hard it will damage any chance of rebuilding her connection with her son? Look at the scene in Flynn's bedroom where he tells Emily she hurt his 'mother' because his parents were arguing-and they 'never argued'. Emily is walking on eggshells trying to balance her own highly stressed emotional/mental state and her desperate need to be in Flynn's life. It's complicated! LOL.
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quasar
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Post by quasar on Sept 30, 2017 2:38:08 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion. Will tackle that after Vera. quasar, If possible, you should also give the following a chance; Morse, Inspector Lewis, Endeavour, Grantchester, Scott & Bailey (all British); as well as a couple of Australian shows, 800 Words and A Place to Call Home. Cheers Grantchester's a huge favorite and I watch Morse and Endeavor as well. Will have to try the others. I loved Broadchurch Season 1 but it fell off in the 2nd season. Thanks so much.
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Post by jnorton45 on Sept 30, 2017 3:30:29 GMT
I brought up the issue of filming in Sophia and calling it Boston. When Emily is dropped off by the driver of the 18 wheeler under a very distinctive bridge near a concrete plant in Boston. It's not exactly Boston, but there is a concrete plant under the run up to the Zakim Bridge (Big Dig.) I give them a B for looks and an A for effort.
Nice touch. Close.
Absentia just gets better and better. Stana's performances are as good as anyone ever gave.
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Post by eeyore on Sept 30, 2017 7:00:32 GMT
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